Fashion for Lesbians? The new market .....

[PrinceOfCats]

but i think that the answer to what lesbians want in fashion is probably what all women want which is to feel comfortable in their own skin, to feel confident and to wear whatever reflects that for them. i think the trick MAY be that, without intimate male pressure (as opposed to societal male pressure, which exists for everyone in a sexist world regardless of sexual orientation) women are naturally that much more self-determining. and our natural diversity is harder to mass market!

Male societal pressure - is that not a paradox?

 

[meme527]

I think its just a way that people describe a certain fashion. Minimal female fashion may be reffered to a lesbian fashion like someone mentioned jil sanders fashion whereas flamboyant men's fashion may also go the other way...thats my opinion

nicely, neatly, "cleanly" said.

meme

 

[meme527]

Male societal pressure - is that not a paradox?

how so, prince?

meme

 

[meme527]

It's just rather insulting what they have turned a lady into...masculine and sex-driven.

i don't know about you, deutsch, but i'm no lady!!!

meme

 

[Hipkitten]

That was shocking...we ought to continue with 50s conservative Republican sensibilities instead.

I thought this was sarcasm until I read:

It's just rather insulting what they have turned a lady into...masculine and sex-driven.

First off, who are "they"? Secondly, you've been watching too many Leave it to Beaver reruns if you think the 50's were an ideal time. Can you say Jim Crow?

This is a fascinating topic. I find it interesting that we're still trying to fit people in boxes, neatly categorized and wrapped in a pink or blue bow. I am a proud contradiction - entirely feminine, entirely masculine, and entirely unapologetic. I find the idea that sexuality can be identified, classified, and marketed based on the way someone looks to be small minded and simple. I love that my husband is "feminine" - more so than myself. I love that my gay brother is "masculine." I love that some of my gay male friends are screaming queens… Why are we so afraid of people who challenge the status quo? Why are we asked to conform?

 

[PrinceOfCats]

how so, prince?

meme

Well society is made of two halves - male and female. Societal pressure is pressure applied by society as a whole and therefore by both men and women. Women are every bit as much a part of a patriarchal society that represses both men and women (in different ways obviously). Case in point - my grandma doesn't think girls should go to university.

 

[meme527]

Well society is made of two halves - male and female. Societal pressure is pressure applied by society as a whole and therefore by both men and women. Women are every bit as much a part of a patriarchal society that represses both men and women (in different ways obviously). Case in point - my grandma doesn't think girls should go to university.

i see what you mean. this is what happens when i try to come up with metaphors for "patriarchy." thanks for the correction, prince.

meme

 

[pucci_mama]

I dont really se the comparison... i mean the styles the writer describes was more of a "strong and sext woman" a femme fatale.

Why call it a lesbian? Taking pieces of masculine elements and pairing them with feminine has been done for a long time i.e Ann demeuleemester, but noone has really called it lesbian??

I dont think the writer really know what he/she is talking about and drawing a comparison when there is nothing there.

 

[adorefaith]

this is a fascinating thread...
i want to say thanks to everyone for participating....i really appreciate people's honesty and most people's ability to be candid but respectful

my sexual orientation isnt something i feel entirely comfortable discussing openly on an internet forum, but i'm sure it is inevitable that it will factor in...especially in a discussion like this....so having said that...!

firstly, the reference to the women of 'the L word' as "fantasy lesbians" in one of the previously posted articles is just ridiculous to me.... i understand and probably even participate in the fascination with categories and definitions, but there is only so far they will take you....to market fashion to a 'lesbian community' is as much of an impossibility as it is to market fashion to a 'heterosexual community'.... it depends on the level of accuracy you are aiming for and what exactly you are trying to achieve IMHO...
naturally there is an element of fantasy in the L word, just as there is an element of fantasy, and arguably a large one, in every TV show...it is TELEVISION...not real life....but IMO the mistake comes when people assume the fantasy is introduced because lesbian women in real life do not dress/act/maintain themselves the way the women of The L Word do... as SoftGrey pointed out, this same fact can be thrown at a television show like sex & the city... there are elements of the women on that show, just as on the L word, that are accurate representations of women in real life...but everything must be taken in context...

i understand the desire to market fashion pieces to correct and appropriate audiences.. and that sense of identity that is expressed through fashion can be tightly associated with vanity and sexuality.. but this sexual orientation or interest is only ONE aspect of one's identity.. and certainly not the strongest one, IMO, to employ as a tool to market fashion.....

i dont believe my sexual orientation plays a primary role in my interest in fashion or my personal tastes within fashion... while there are extremes within the minorities of gay and lesbian clientele that will obviously express their sexual orientation in terms of fashion more obviously than those who dont feel influenced by that, there are these same extremes within the heterosexual circle.... and these extremes, in both cases, are a minority----does that mean you do not include them when considering fashion and customer? of course not.... but it is a mistake to insist that these extremes are the way everyone operates....

it is a superficial, and possibly inaccurate, example.... but look at a woman like Portia De Rossi....a lesbian woman in the entertainment world with an awareness of and interest in fashion... feminine... seemingly comfortable with that femininity, whether or not it is equal to or stronger than its masculine counterpart... and then look at a woman like Rosie O'Donnell... who cares none for Chanel couture or where a designer skirt hits her on the leg and how it alters her shape... both lesbian women... both in a business that places a huge stress on image and identity.. both with an extremely different view of fashion and its place in their life....

i dont know what my point is.... but i know that to examine fashion's tie to the lesbian woman is about as vague and overwhelming an endeavour as to examine it's connection to the heterosexual woman... you MUST be more specific... and you have to be careful not to draw lines and create boundaries where they would not naturally form....

 

[meme527]

adorefaith great post.

to be blunt i think advertising uses sex to sell things
any flavor of sexuality will do. and realism be damned.

only ignorant people will think that all lesbians or all gay men are into fashion/not into fashion, look like rosie/look like portia (whether male or female)...

people are turned on by the idea of sex, by imagining what other people do in bed, by the idea of turning people on. advertising and fashion manipulate all that energy and use it to get a reaction. to get you to BUY. as long as we don't use this false information to deny actual people human rights, i say caveat emptor.

i think adorefaith is really brave to address the issue so openly and honestly!


meme

 

[Lena]

to be blunt i think advertising uses sex to sell things
any flavor of sexuality will do. and realism be damned.

only ignorant people will think that all lesbians or all gay men are into fashion/not into fashion, look like rosie/look like portia (whether male or female)...

unfortunately, ignorant marketing is heading the 'gay way' i have posted a topic with a related 'market analysis' somewhere in the advertising section at creative team section

completly agree with adorefaith, impossible to market lesbians and ugly to feed the ghetto caricature, much more since its not even existing.. i have seen gay women wear everything, from margiela to dior and diesel.. doesnt mean a thing but the marketing directors will keep pushing the issue, much more since gay/fashion mags are all the new publishing craze. (i believe its not a EU thing, right?) so these pages must get some targeted advertising and so, it is.. lets create a new market, its what i call 'marketing the gay' ..its absurd, sexist and idiotic

 

[Golden rush]

well even though most of you think that marketing the gay is impossible i have some doubts...in some parts i agree with this tha gay women wear everthing and that sexual preference is not the one that defines somebodys fashion style...
well, on individual base i agree, but i am not livin alone and isolated from society, and people that are around me influence a lotta things i do and shop ...so how i got it, most of the people that listen to hip hop (or any kinda music) dress in a look-a-like kinda way...baseball caps, bling blings with their nick/names etc they are omnipresent in hip hop...what makes these people to dress in the similar way is the culture. feeling of belonging to one culture is makin them dress similar as the people with whom they share interests and so...so if we define gay in marketing as a gay culture can then marketing the gay be possible?

(im sorry, im quite tired and explainin my thoughts in english is hard now, will do better next time

 

[adorefaith]

...so if we define gay in marketing as a gay culture can then marketing the gay be possible?

i understand the parallel you've drawn..
i just dont think it is quite the same situation...

without bringing my own views into play here, a lot of people (gay or otherwise) will tell you that their sexuality is an innate part of their identity... that it is not a CHOICE..

to enjoy hip-hop music/dance/etc, however, or be a part of that 'culture' is more likely a conscious choice... if you look at it from a communications theory perspective (which is more my thing..!), it follows along the lines of something we call symbolic convergence...

people with a shared fantasy...and a shared reality... tend to form a cohesive group together... they enjoy the same things, find beauty in similar looks, shapes, etc.. like the same music.. whatever the example.. it could be something as basic as wanting to emulate Snoop Dog -- this then influences the entire 'culture'.. their dress, language, style, etc.. fashion being a big part of this..

something like sexuality differs, in my opinion... while there is still a certain 'culture' that exists, it is much broader.. and there are a greater number of people, i would think, who do not categorize themselves within the boundaries of the 'culture', or group.. which is why you will find it so much harder to point out a lesbian woman on the street than you will to point out a woman who is part of the hip hop culture...

 

[lee]

speaking as a gay (i use that term loosely cos i can't even catergorize myself) girl, these 'butch' women are probably tomboys that grew up n stayed that way...speaking as a 'reformed tomboy' myself, i remember refusing to wear skirts and dresses cos it was too "girly" n i was too "tough" to be all girly... there ARE lesbians out there who are only attracted to specific looks too (i.e. femmes, butches, andros, etc)...or maybe these women who are attracted to the butchy lesbians are so because they can't fully accept being with a woman; so being with a woman that resembles a man makes things easier?...

yes, so reformed tomboy n all but that doesn't mean i'm decked out in dior homme. in fact, i'm always in skirts and wear alot of colour.... i digress but i went to this lesbian party once (i'm usually at the "straight clubs") and my lesbian friend made me change my outfit cos i was too "straight looking"... she made me pull on a pair of pants so i'd "blend in"... if i was going to a gay party, i "had to look gay" she said...

excuse me if i'm all over the place, its such a vast concept and almost impossible to be concise, which i'm trying to be...