Is fashion discussion finite?

Karl.Popper said:
Fashion discussion is as 'finite' as music criticism is.

i.e., not very.

Fashion dicussion, in the sense that Helena meant, is not fashion criticism. There will always be new collections to criticize, just as there will be new albums or new performances to review.

Personally I think there is a limit to what you can say and discuss about fashion as a medium (as opposed to it's most recent manifestations). I think the proof of that, in a way, is how the discussions that we've had here on "loftier" topics have (a) tended to degenerate into, specifically, as Lena pointed out, circularity and (b) then stopped.
 
Scott said:
Funny,too as I say that I am reminded of the battle between craftsmanship and mass production...that's a topic that still goes on.

Scott, that battle is a sub-topic of capitalism, not fashion, although it can be seen in the context of the fashion industry (along with many others).
 
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^^ I agree Johnny that is a broader debate but the conversation that Scott refers to does have an application to fashion and that is worthy of ongoing discussion. Many of the more interesting topics discussed have actually been broader issues narrowed down to their application to our members' interests namely, fashion.

I know Lena some of those debates became rambling and sometimes tiresome...but there were some interesting ones too...and I miss that sometimes. I guess I jjust wondered if we have talked fashion to death...or maybe to sleep. :lol: :flower:
 
Helena i know exactly what you mean, i guess we will return to our 'theoretical' discussions as new issues come up..

to me at this point, there is so much going on global trade/financial/strategy issues that fashion's socio/esthetic theoretics leave me a tiny bit cold..
guess i'm in a 'hardcore' mood, no wonder as i analyse the 3rd quarter results by the bigger players of the global apparel market :ninja:

:shock: the money this industry absorbs.
 
H, can you provide some examples of the discussions you are referring to? Because I'm not entirely sure what we are talking about!

Generally speaking though, I don't think anything regarding fashion is ever finite. By nature this industry is constantly changing and evolving, and so I don't think discussion regarding that will be finite. Aesthetics wise, as others have said, it's so immensely personal at times that it just comes down to that. Not sure if this makes sense though?
 
Johnny said:
Fashion dicussion, in the sense that Helena meant, is not fashion criticism. There will always be new collections to criticize, just as there will be new albums or new performances to review.

Personally I think there is a limit to what you can say and discuss about fashion as a medium (as opposed to it's most recent manifestations). I think the proof of that, in a way, is how the discussions that we've had here on "loftier" topics have (a) tended to degenerate into, specifically, as Lena pointed out, circularity and (b) then stopped.

This is incorrect. If there are always new collections to criticize, there will always be new discussions IN REACTION to these criticisms, or indeed to the collection itself. For if fashion is nothing but the regurgitation of old ideas with nothing new or noteworthy to discuss in their latest 'manifestations', then fashion is dead, which it clearly isn't. Yet we routinely find in history new modes in fashion - which entails _new ideas_, progress, and with progress, _innovation_.

To say that music criticism is distinct from music discussion and hence that discussion in both music and fashion is "limited" is to misunderstand the history of both. Are you sure that the invention of polyphony, of counterpoint, of atonal music and of sundry new musical idioms - that these are all peripheral to the very discussion of music itself? These innovations have had profound and lasting effects on how we frame discussions in music, how we understand music, what counts as beautiful in music, and for many people, even the very possibilities in music are expanded beyond their limits of prior comprehension. These innovations are not just "new albums" or "new performances", not merely the turning of tricks within old limits. Heraldry, frills, embroidery, women wearing pants, capes, asymmetry, new cuts, bloomers, these are not mere transient innovations in fashion. They affect the perception of what we view as beautiful because they provide new idioms for us to create with. Our appraisals of form, balance, and beauty change irrevocably with the introduction of some of these ideas.

The fact that discussions _here_ degenerate into circularity is not proof of there being limits to fashion discussion anymore than circularity at the local pop music convention "proves" that music scholarship and its attendant discussion is limited. It is to mistake your parochialism for everyone else's.
 
Karl.Popper said:
This is incorrect. If there are always new collections to criticize, there will always be new discussions IN REACTION to these criticisms, or indeed to the collection itself. For if fashion is nothing but the regurgitation of old ideas with nothing new or noteworthy to discuss in their latest 'manifestations', then fashion is dead, which it clearly isn't. Yet we routinely find in history new modes in fashion - which entails _new ideas_, progress, and with progress, _innovation_.

To say that music criticism is distinct from music discussion and hence that discussion in both music and fashion is "limited" is to misunderstand the history of both. Are you sure that the invention of polyphony, of counterpoint, of atonal music and of sundry new musical idioms - that these are all peripheral to the very discussion of music itself? These innovations have had profound and lasting effects on how we frame discussions in music, how we understand music, what counts as beautiful in music, and for many people, even the very possibilities in music are expanded beyond their limits of prior comprehension. These innovations are not just "new albums" or "new performances", not merely the turning of tricks within old limits. Heraldry, frills, embroidery, women wearing pants, capes, asymmetry, new cuts, bloomers, these are not mere transient innovations in fashion. They affect the perception of what we view as beautiful because they provide new idioms for us to create with. Our appraisals of form, balance, and beauty change irrevocably with the introduction of some of these ideas.

The fact that discussions _here_ degenerate into circularity is not proof of there being limits to fashion discussion anymore than circularity at the local pop music convention "proves" that music scholarship and its attendant discussion is limited. It is to mistake your parochialism for everyone else's.

How interesting, if slightly overwrought. However, it's "incorrect", if I may be so bold, to assume that I'm parochial just because I (may) disagree with what you say. In addition, it's "incorrect" (in fact, rather meaningless) to say "It is to mistake your parochialism for everyone else's". I suspect that what you mean is that "It is a mistake to assume that your parochialism applies to everyone else." If you're going to be a rude and arrogant smartarse, try to be a little more precise.
 
Sorry, I didn't mean it that way. I meant, in the context, that discussions that are limited in scope (parochial) here, do not imply that discussions are, in general, limited.
 
Mr Karl - would you like to take the lead then, and maybe we can learn how not to be parochial and limited in scope here. What would you like to discuss?

Actually I'd be interested to hear what makes you think 'here' is parochial....
 
Well, just look at my posts.

I kid.

Anyway, I think it has already been mentioned why discussions here are limited. You've stated the reasons yourself: goes round and round, same old 'insights' being trotted out, gets tedious because the same things are being said over and again. I agree.
 
Karl.Popper said:
Well, just look at my posts.

I kid.

Anyway, I think it has already been mentioned why discussions here are limited. You've stated the reasons yourself: goes round and round, same old 'insights' being trotted out, gets tedious because the same things are being said over and again. I agree.

well, lead the way young man!
 
Johnny said:
How interesting, if slightly overwrought.

:lol:

Some interesting perspectives here ... I have always thought that finity was part of human nature, so that all human discussions (incl those of fashion :wink:) would by definition be finite.

Probably a couple of additional factors are that only 25% or so of the population are abstract thinkers, and often the 75% concrete thinkers are much less interested in theoretical discussions ... find them boring & pointless & would rather be *doing* something. Also, if you have the same core group of abstract thinkers, the discussions will end up with a certain sameness, perhaps :wink:

Being an abstract thinker myself, I say let the theoretical discussions rock on :wink: B) :mohawk:
 
fashionista-ta said:
:lol:

Some interesting perspectives here ... I have always thought that finity was part of human nature, so that all human discussions (incl those of fashion :wink:) would by definition be finite.

Probably a couple of additional factors are that only 25% or so of the population are abstract thinkers, and often the 75% concrete thinkers are much less interested in theoretical discussions ... find them boring & pointless & would rather be *doing* something. Also, if you have the same core group of abstract thinkers, the discussions will end up with a certain sameness, perhaps :wink:

Being an abstract thinker myself, I say let the theoretical discussions rock on :wink: B) :mohawk:

that was too abstract :lol: just kidding
 
Funny,too as I say that I am reminded of the battle between craftsmanship and mass production...that's a topic that still goes on.

i do not work in the fashion industry, therefore, i can't say i really know the reality of it, but i think discussing new methods and new ways to think of production is very interesting, and incredibly relevant to the fashion industry.
the different solutions could stem from channeling both 'out of the box' thinking and very pragmatic thinking.
 
fashionista-ta said:
:lol:

Some interesting perspectives here ... I have always thought that finity was part of human nature, so that all human discussions (incl those of fashion :wink:) would by definition be finite.

:unsure:

Humans can discuss God; Does that then mean that God is finite?
 
maverick...
i need to remind you to stay on topic...


thanks...
 
:lol:

Replace the word "God" from my post with "the concept of infinity" if you were offended softgrey...
 
i'm not offended maverick...you are off topic...:smile:
 
maverick - god may not be finite, but a discussion about him may be. As also maybe a dicsussion about infinity.
 

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